Message Threads | The Odoo Community Association

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Here you can find an idea of a task that functional people can do: Update the migration "issues", see https://github.com/OCA/stock-logistics-reporting/issues/92


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El jue., 20 feb. 2020 a las 15:27, Maxime Chambreuil (<mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com>) escribió:

Hello,

1. I am not sure it matters. The ones it is intended to may not be here today, but hopefully will join in the future.

2. What's wrong with the current mailing lists available at https://odoo-community.org/groups?

3. @Stefano How long has this site been up? How many writers do you have? How often do they write? How many visits does it get per month on average?

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 4:17 AM Jairo Llopis <jairo.llopis@tecnativa.com> wrote:

El jue., 20 feb. 2020 a las 9:02, Stefano Consolaro (<stefano.consolaro@mymage.it>) escribió:
Well, after a couple of days I think that there are some points to check:
1 Who we are? How many functional people are active in OCA and have theme to analyze?

No idea, but I guess just a few. OCA is hard even for devs.

2 What can be a tool to support a functional discussion?

A matrix community, with rooms. It can be good for devs too.

3 What can be a tool to document a flow

Google docs. It allows reviewing and approving, just like git, but everyone knows how to use it, and functionals don't need to learn git nor that # this is a header and *this is italics* but **this is bold**.

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by Eduardo Magdalena - 09:00 - 20 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

1. I am not sure it matters. The ones it is intended to may not be here today, but hopefully will join in the future.

2. What's wrong with the current mailing lists available at https://odoo-community.org/groups?

3. @Stefano How long has this site been up? How many writers do you have? How often do they write? How many visits does it get per month on average?

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT

O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com

P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 4:17 AM Jairo Llopis <jairo.llopis@tecnativa.com> wrote:

El jue., 20 feb. 2020 a las 9:02, Stefano Consolaro (<stefano.consolaro@mymage.it>) escribió:
Well, after a couple of days I think that there are some points to check:
1 Who we are? How many functional people are active in OCA and have theme to analyze?

No idea, but I guess just a few. OCA is hard even for devs.

2 What can be a tool to support a functional discussion?

A matrix community, with rooms. It can be good for devs too.

3 What can be a tool to document a flow

Google docs. It allows reviewing and approving, just like git, but everyone knows how to use it, and functionals don't need to learn git nor that # this is a header and *this is italics* but **this is bold**.

_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
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by Maxime Chambreuil - 03:25 - 20 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

El jue., 20 feb. 2020 a las 9:02, Stefano Consolaro (<stefano.consolaro@mymage.it>) escribió:

Well, after a couple of days I think that there are some points to check:
1 Who we are? How many functional people are active in OCA and have theme to analyze?

No idea, but I guess just a few. OCA is hard even for devs.

2 What can be a tool to support a functional discussion?

A matrix community, with rooms. It can be good for devs too.

3 What can be a tool to document a flow

Google docs. It allows reviewing and approving, just like git, but everyone knows how to use it, and functionals don't need to learn git nor that # this is a header and *this is italics* but **this is bold**.

by Jairo Llopis - 11:16 - 20 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Well, after a couple of days I think that there are some points to check:
1 Who we are? How many functional people are active in OCA and have theme to analyze?
2 What can be a tool to support a functional discussion?
3 What can be a tool to document a flow

So my proposal:

1-2 We (OCA) can set up a Functional mailing list, we do a bit of promotion and in a couple of weeks/months we can have some information on how many we are and what is the interest on these channel.
The mailing list for me is the best tool because there is a thread management, request a bit before replay, can be searced, can be viewed from who is out of the list.

3 Readme inside each module must be well done, but a tool that collects/organizes all the informations and has a "simple" UI can help.
In Odoo-Italia we begin to set-up a documentation tool using the Odoo original one with some little adjustment; you can give a sight here (obviously in Italian language) https://www.odoo-italia.org/documentazione/ .

For example if you go to "Sviluppo" (develop), "Come fare una revisione" (How to do a review) https://www.odoo-italia.org/documentazione/12.0/sviluppo/review.html you will see the content with a navigation list on the left; when you clik on "Modifica su GitHub" (Edit on GitHub)
- if you are a member of documentation group, you can edit the page and directly save it with a commit
- if you aren't a member, you will be request to create a fork of the repository an then create a PR (Pull Request) to submit the changes.

I know that some "pure functional" can dislike the need to subscribe to GitHub and use the procedure of fork-PR, but this can be a method to select/instruct the contributors and once proved the quality they can be enroled in the group; secondary Git management tools like GitHub have powerful features to simplify the proces.

Back to initial page, on the bottom there is "Repository OCA" / " "Protezione dei dati" (OCA Repository / Data protection) https://www.odoo-italia.org/documentazione/12.0/repo_oca/data-protection/moduli/privacy.html .

Here you will see the readme of the Data Protection - Privacy module (https://github.com/OCA/data-protection/tree/12.0/privacy) translate in italian.

It is a simple operation of copy and paste of the module's readme.rst with little adjustment and the translation: apart from the content, it can be created a template for all the readme documents.

Stefano Consolaro

www.mymage.it

by Stefano Consolaro - 10:01 - 20 Feb 2020

Salary Structures

Dear community,

Is there a good readme or explanation (or real-life examples) on salary structures and rules? It seems like a complete voodoo at first :D We’re diving into this part of Odoo for the first time

Kind regards,
Alexey

by Alexey Pelykh <alexey.pelykh@gmail.com> - 03:36 - 19 Feb 2020

Re: How to use /ocabot merge correctly?

Thank you for the explanation. I am more clear now.

Can I help modify this blog post? https://odoo-community.org/blog/the-oca-blog-1/post/the-oca-github-bot-can-now-merge-pull-requests-92

Note: it seem everyone could edit the page, correct?

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:47 PM Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa) <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com> wrote:

About the version number idea, it's depicted in contributing guidelines:

https://github.com/OCA/odoo-community.org/blob/master/website/Contribution/CONTRIBUTING.rst#version-numbers

Regards.

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by Kitti Upariphutthiphong - 08:46 - 18 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

@Landis,

The only consideration that matters is that it is useful. If it is, then people will go write and read the documentation and this initiative will be a success.

It would be interesting to know what tools functional people are using internally, the adoption rate, their feedback, etc.

We, at OSI, use MediaWiki internally and adoption rate is close to 100% even if the usage could be more uniform.

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT

O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com

P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:56 PM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Maxime et all,

The issue page you reference is quite extensive, and yes, that is a good basis for documentation, though I worry about it getting lost when an "issue" is marked as closed. Theoretically the documentation would be built into a "longer lasting place".

Many "Readme" pages are very brief and would benefit from additional information. Also, since requirements change over time/ branch to branch, it would seem good to have good documentation built into Readme/Doc sets in different branches. Conversations between branches would of course need to take place.

I do note that GitHub itself has a Wiki Feature that might be more appropriate than a separate MediaWiki? What are the considerations?
The Github wiki is not "branched" and I could see some value for that, so support for such would need to be built into a Wiki Structure itself (whichever wiki).
If the WIKI have a "branching" type structure it would also be able to do much of the work. I expect that it would tend to get stuck in either a "current branch" or perhaps some "out of date situation". It does seem that a tree structure could be built on a Wiki to reflect variations in Branch Generations.

Is there a way to have "conversations" around a Wiki?
Perhaps just an OCA "Community" Repository using the GitHub Wiki and Issue methodology (change some tagging terms) as well as a maintaining a code repository that reflects wider information resources.

Not small subjects, but I do think that "coding standards" can have corollaries in the realms of documentation and community ecosystem.

I will look at the media wiki? Is there a OCA GitWiki that is in existence now that might work as a testing ground in comparison?

best to all,

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc.
Colorado, USA

From: "Maxime Chambreuil" <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com>
To: "Odoo Community Association, (OCA) Contributors" <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2020 7:42:25 AM
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,
Yes, wiki page by addon and module description would overlap because today that is the only piece of documentation we have.

Tomorrow, functional and technical people can collaborate on the documentation in the wiki and the developer can then copy/paste it in the readme folder.

In the future we can have various types of content that will have their own template:
Concept: Here is an example: https://en.odoodoc.org/mediawiki/index.php/Chart_of_Accounts or maybe link directly to wikipedia
Scenario/User Manual: No example so far, but the idea would be to have:
the business requirement (what we want to do)
the list of modules to install
the configuration (settings, master data option)
the process (how to perform it with screenshot)
Design: Here is an example: https://github.com/OCA/field-service/issues/450
and the idea is to inter-reference them: i.e. link to the concept page from the scenario to allow fluid reading but still allow newcomers to click the link to learn the concept.

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:36 AM Jean-Charles Drubay <jc@komit-consulting.com> wrote:
I also think that wiki and README overlap. If we feel the need of a wiki page for a module, it's probably because the README is missing information. At module level, the necessary documentation probably does not justify setting up a wiki page(s).

But a forum would bring benefit for functional contributors to discuss requirements freely from the constraints, WUI and rules of github and frontier between OCA / Odoo SA code.

Regarding Odoo and stackoverflow like "forum", I imagine that this can be addressed by the existing Odoo help/forum: https://www.odoo.com/forum/help-1 and it does not have to be an OCA tool.

This being said, maybe Odoo SA could setup a forum with a more traditional forum WUI and features. Because it does not seem to be something which OCA specific and Odoo could use this for discussions on future features. I imagine the that the percentage of discussions that would be OCA specific would be just a part of the discussions. Odoo used to have such a forum long ago ...

We could search for support from Odoo SA for admin and moderators for such a forum to be back online.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:22 PM Lorenzo Battistini <elbaddy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Maxime,
wouldn't this overlap with modules READMEs?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 at 18:51, Maxime Chambreuil <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com> wrote:
Hello,
Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,
I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

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by Maxime Chambreuil - 03:41 - 18 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Maxime et all,

The issue page you reference is quite extensive, and yes, that is a good basis for documentation, though I worry about it getting lost when an "issue" is marked as closed. Theoretically the documentation would be built into a "longer lasting place".

Many "Readme" pages are very brief and would benefit from additional information. Also, since requirements change over time/ branch to branch, it would seem good to have good documentation built into Readme/Doc sets in different branches. Conversations between branches would of course need to take place.

I do note that GitHub itself has a Wiki Feature that might be more appropriate than a separate MediaWiki? What are the considerations?

The Github wiki is not "branched" and I could see some value for that, so support for such would need to be built into a Wiki Structure itself (whichever wiki).

If the WIKI have a "branching" type structure it would also be able to do much of the work. I expect that it would tend to get stuck in either a "current branch" or perhaps some "out of date situation". It does seem that a tree structure could be built on a Wiki to reflect variations in Branch Generations.

Is there a way to have "conversations" around a Wiki?

Perhaps just an OCA "Community" Repository using the GitHub Wiki and Issue methodology (change some tagging terms) as well as a maintaining a code repository that reflects wider information resources.

Not small subjects, but I do think that "coding standards" can have corollaries in the realms of documentation and community ecosystem.

I will look at the media wiki? Is there a OCA GitWiki that is in existence now that might work as a testing ground in comparison?

best to all,

Landis Arnold

Nomadic Inc.

Colorado, USA

From: "Maxime Chambreuil" <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com>
To: "Odoo Community Association, (OCA) Contributors" <contributors@odoo-community.org>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2020 7:42:25 AM
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

Yes, wiki page by addon and module description would overlap because today that is the only piece of documentation we have.

Tomorrow, functional and technical people can collaborate on the documentation in the wiki and the developer can then copy/paste it in the readme folder.

In the future we can have various types of content that will have their own template:

Concept: Here is an example: https://en.odoodoc.org/mediawiki/index.php/Chart_of_Accounts or maybe link directly to wikipedia
Scenario/User Manual: No example so far, but the idea would be to have:

the business requirement (what we want to do)
the list of modules to install
the configuration (settings, master data option)
the process (how to perform it with screenshot)

Design: Here is an example: https://github.com/OCA/field-service/issues/450

and the idea is to inter-reference them: i.e. link to the concept page from the scenario to allow fluid reading but still allow newcomers to click the link to learn the concept.

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT

O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com

P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:36 AM Jean-Charles Drubay <jc@komit-consulting.com> wrote:

I also think that wiki and README overlap. If we feel the need of a wiki page for a module, it's probably because the README is missing information. At module level, the necessary documentation probably does not justify setting up a wiki page(s).

But a forum would bring benefit for functional contributors to discuss requirements freely from the constraints, WUI and rules of github and frontier between OCA / Odoo SA code.

Regarding Odoo and stackoverflow like "forum", I imagine that this can be addressed by the existing Odoo help/forum: https://www.odoo.com/forum/help-1 and it does not have to be an OCA tool.

This being said, maybe Odoo SA could setup a forum with a more traditional forum WUI and features. Because it does not seem to be something which OCA specific and Odoo could use this for discussions on future features. I imagine the that the percentage of discussions that would be OCA specific would be just a part of the discussions. Odoo used to have such a forum long ago ...

We could search for support from Odoo SA for admin and moderators for such a forum to be back online.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:22 PM Lorenzo Battistini <elbaddy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Maxime,
wouldn't this overlap with modules READMEs?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 at 18:51, Maxime Chambreuil <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com> wrote:
Hello,
Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,
I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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<attachment>

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--
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https://github.com/eLBati
takobi.online | Facebook | Linkedin | Youtube

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by Landis Arnold - 10:56 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: How to use /ocabot merge correctly?

About the version number idea, it's depicted in contributing guidelines:

https://github.com/OCA/odoo-community.org/blob/master/website/Contribution/CONTRIBUTING.rst#version-numbers

Regards.

by Pedro M. Baeza - 04:46 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: How to use /ocabot merge correctly?

Hi Kitti,

Thanks for raising this topic. Here are some answer elements.

1/ I'm not sure if there is a document explaining it but the idea is to roughly use it in semver style so:

- patch: for code-only bug fixes that do not require -u to install

- minor: when a database update (-u) is needed (for view changes, new fields) but the code remains otherwise compatible (no existing method signature change, no removed fields...).

- major: when existing method signature change, or fields or models are removed or changed

2/ for new modules or migration, always use /ocabot merge too, because it will run all tests again before merging. I personally tend to use /ocabot merge patch for new modules too, because it has the added benefit to publish a wheel with a round number.

3/ /ocabot merge alone does not bump version. It should be used rarely, There is this idea of deprecating the bare "/ocabot merge" in favor of "/ocabot merge nobump".

4/ regarding HISTORY.rst (the changelog), I'm proposing to use towncrier (see this issue for more information) to avoid conflicts and generate it from fragments.

All this is of course open for improvement :)

Best regards,

-sbi

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:11 AM Kitti Upariphutthiphong <kittiu@ecosoft.co.th> wrote:

Dear community,

We have seen this document, yet it not tell in great detail. https://odoo-community.org/blog/the-oca-blog-1/post/the-oca-github-bot-can-now-merge-pull-requests-92 so may we ask in detailed here,

1) What is the difference between /ocabot merge patch/minor/major and the symantic of x.y.z - breaking.feature.fix in another document. Is it so that,
- /ocabot merge patch, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.0.1 (patch = fix)
- /ocabot merge minor, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.1.0 (minor = feature)
- /ocabot merge major, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.2.0.0 (major = breaking)

2) For the new [ADD] module, should be click merge manually, or use /ocabot merge (don't want to add any digit, but we test it and it seem to try to change last digit).

3) What is "/ocabot merge" alone, it default to patch or minor?

4) What is the practice to work with some module that has HISTORY. For example, some author (not the PSC), may add in history as new Minor revision, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.1.0 but the merger think it is just a fix. And so, he might do /ocabot merge patch . This could result in the version diff between HISTORY and manifest file?

Thank you!
Kitti U.

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by Stéphane Bidoul - 04:40 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

Yes, wiki page by addon and module description would overlap because today that is the only piece of documentation we have.

Tomorrow, functional and technical people can collaborate on the documentation in the wiki and the developer can then copy/paste it in the readme folder.

In the future we can have various types of content that will have their own template:

Concept: Here is an example: https://en.odoodoc.org/mediawiki/index.php/Chart_of_Accounts or maybe link directly to wikipedia
Scenario/User Manual: No example so far, but the idea would be to have:

the business requirement (what we want to do)
the list of modules to install
the configuration (settings, master data option)
the process (how to perform it with screenshot)

Design: Here is an example: https://github.com/OCA/field-service/issues/450

and the idea is to inter-reference them: i.e. link to the concept page from the scenario to allow fluid reading but still allow newcomers to click the link to learn the concept.

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT

O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com

P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:36 AM Jean-Charles Drubay <jc@komit-consulting.com> wrote:

I also think that wiki and README overlap. If we feel the need of a wiki page for a module, it's probably because the README is missing information. At module level, the necessary documentation probably does not justify setting up a wiki page(s).

But a forum would bring benefit for functional contributors to discuss requirements freely from the constraints, WUI and rules of github and frontier between OCA / Odoo SA code.

Regarding Odoo and stackoverflow like "forum", I imagine that this can be addressed by the existing Odoo help/forum: https://www.odoo.com/forum/help-1 and it does not have to be an OCA tool.

This being said, maybe Odoo SA could setup a forum with a more traditional forum WUI and features. Because it does not seem to be something which OCA specific and Odoo could use this for discussions on future features. I imagine the that the percentage of discussions that would be OCA specific would be just a part of the discussions. Odoo used to have such a forum long ago ...

We could search for support from Odoo SA for admin and moderators for such a forum to be back online.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:22 PM Lorenzo Battistini <elbaddy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Maxime,
wouldn't this overlap with modules READMEs?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 at 18:51, Maxime Chambreuil <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com> wrote:
Hello,

Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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<attachment>

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--
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https://github.com/eLBati
takobi.online | Facebook | Linkedin | Youtube

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by Maxime Chambreuil - 03:41 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

I also think that wiki and README overlap. If we feel the need of a wiki page for a module, it's probably because the README is missing information. At module level, the necessary documentation probably does not justify setting up a wiki page(s).

But a forum would bring benefit for functional contributors to discuss requirements freely from the constraints, WUI and rules of github and frontier between OCA / Odoo SA code.

Regarding Odoo and stackoverflow like "forum", I imagine that this can be addressed by the existing Odoo help/forum: https://www.odoo.com/forum/help-1 and it does not have to be an OCA tool.

This being said, maybe Odoo SA could setup a forum with a more traditional forum WUI and features. Because it does not seem to be something which OCA specific and Odoo could use this for discussions on future features. I imagine the that the percentage of discussions that would be OCA specific would be just a part of the discussions. Odoo used to have such a forum long ago ...

We could search for support from Odoo SA for admin and moderators for such a forum to be back online.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:22 PM Lorenzo Battistini <elbaddy@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Maxime,
wouldn't this overlap with modules READMEs?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 at 18:51, Maxime Chambreuil <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com> wrote:
Hello,

Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

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by Jean-Charles Drubay - 12:36 - 17 Feb 2020

How to use /ocabot merge correctly?

Dear community,

We have seen this document, yet it not tell in great detail. https://odoo-community.org/blog/the-oca-blog-1/post/the-oca-github-bot-can-now-merge-pull-requests-92 so may we ask in detailed here,

1) What is the difference between /ocabot merge patch/minor/major and the symantic of x.y.z - breaking.feature.fix in another document. Is it so that,

- /ocabot merge patch, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.0.1 (patch = fix)

- /ocabot merge minor, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.1.0 (minor = feature)

- /ocabot merge major, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.2.0.0 (major = breaking)

2) For the new [ADD] module, should be click merge manually, or use /ocabot merge (don't want to add any digit, but we test it and it seem to try to change last digit).

3) What is "/ocabot merge" alone, it default to patch or minor?

4) What is the practice to work with some module that has HISTORY. For example, some author (not the PSC), may add in history as new Minor revision, 13.0.1.0.0 -> 13.0.1.1.0 but the merger think it is just a fix. And so, he might do /ocabot merge patch . This could result in the version diff between HISTORY and manifest file?

Thank you!

Kitti U.

by Kitti Upariphutthiphong - 10:10 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hi Maxime,

wouldn't this overlap with modules READMEs?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 at 18:51, Maxime Chambreuil <mchambreuil@opensourceintegrators.com> wrote:

Hello,

Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT
O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com
P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

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by Lorenzo Battistini. - 09:21 - 17 Feb 2020

Github OCA do not have runbot and codecov in v13

Dear contributors,

Has been experiences this a while now. For example,

https://github.com/OCA/account-payment/pull/309

https://github.com/OCA/account-invoicing/pull/674

Only Travis seem working.

Thank you,

by Kitti Upariphutthiphong - 09:11 - 17 Feb 2020

Re: Can Odoo create asset on Stock IN, instead on Invoice Post?

Hi,

Ownership is in no way a legal issue for recognition of assets, plenty of businesses have assets on their balance sheet they do not own and conversely things that appear to be assets not on their balance sheet they do own.

Ownership, legal or otherwise, is merely a piece of evidence to demonstrate control of an asset under IFRS. The test is control and expected (meaning probable) future economic benefits. Add to that you must be able to reliably value it and that is essentially the criteria under IFRS. The trick is in the last part, you need to be able to reliably value it and big assets are rarely initially valued at the sticker price.

Leases and time limited quotas are a classic example of a depreciable asset without ownership. There are plenty of others.

And the obvious counterpoint to legality, when you receipt stock in you create an inventory asset don't you? In fact you create even though there commonly is a specific clause in your suppliers credit terms stating that title does not pass until the goods are paid for. So not only do you not own it, someone else is asserting ownership yet they no longer recognise it as an asset, but you do.

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 9:17 PM Ermin Trevisan <trevi@twanda.com> wrote:

Hi Kitti

IMHO this is a legal issue. According to my knowledge, activating (in the balance sheet) and deprecating an asset requires legal ownership. Receiving an asset only creates possession, but not necessarily ownership.

Best, trevi

On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 06:37 +0000, Kitti Upariphutthiphong wrote:
Hi community,

As we know, about Asset in Odoo. Normally, asset is created when Invoice is posted.

AFIK, other ERP system will create asset on Stock In. Which make more sense to me. What is your opinion about this?

Are there OCA modules that did that?

Thank you!

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by Graeme Gellatly - 04:00 - 16 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

My 2cents attempt to answer your questions:

Why is it desired from OCA, that functional people take part? What would be the benefits? Why would OCA value that?

I think that most people interested in odoo have to find answers to functional questions they have first.

Greater adoption of odoo is in the interest of OCA.

What are the expectations of OCA?

from our about page:

"Establish and support an Open Source and collaborative community for the development and promotion of the Odoo features and modules."

Is there a structure that welcomes functional people and makes their contributions valued?

Yes through raising GitHub issues but those discussions are still "owned" by technical people (PSC)

Could or should a structure be created that supports functionals or even takes them for granted or as a necessary part?

I believe it might be useful to have functional discussions "owned" and moderated by functional people.

For example, it could be nice to have somewhere user case discussed, proposed solution path and maybe some challenged proposed solutions.

Why do functional people wish to contribute? What are their expectations?

What prevents them? How can we find out? What happens / happened in the past to functional people who are /were interested in contributing to the community.

There isn't a place to discuss how to do implement, find answers to use cases. Discuss the usefulness of new features.

Raising a Github issue is usually handled by the PSC and centered around the coding challenges.

How can an integrating and welcoming culture be improved and how can that be measured?

Maybe list "use cases" and their answer in the form of a detailed solution path. and the option to challenge those solution paths?!

This could also cover the "user manual" as a starting discussion point per OCA offered module? that could be challenged, ideas of improvement, new functionalities.

Maybe a forum could be a useful tool. with answers voted as "best answer". The number of people participating would be a good measure of interest in the topic at hand.

Here's a concrete example:

Q. user a needs to offer the prospect a website with a simulator and at his request, initiate a CRM pipeline process using the data used in the simulator.

A1: code a module with a form (controller + javascript).

A2: use and extend the "survey" module.

A3: integrate an existing javascript library.

Which one is better? what are +- for each solution?

Maybe a discussion about this will interest users with the same kind of needs. Maybe technical people will want to bring their idea about the topic
I think that discussion could take place off Github. (in a forum?!).

Anyway, hope this makes sense and is useful to someone here.

Good weekend everyone.

--

Yves Goldberg

--

----- Original message -----

From: "Bettina Pfeifer dygytally.de" <bettina@dygytally.de>

To: Contributors <contributors@odoo-community.org>

Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Date: Saturday, February 15, 2020 19:57

Dear Kitti, dear community,

as a functional person I would like to add my 2ct in the discussion about this "pretty hard question :) " from Kitti.

First of all, this question really really needs to be discussed together with functional people. Some of you already pointed that out.

If tech people suggest what to change, this is a nice move, but keeps generating solutions from tech people.

Odoo has a (open or not so open) culture of "everything is in the sourcecode" and this is a rather difficult approach for functionals.

In my opinion it is most of all a question of culture, so we could first of all ask more detailed questions like these:

Why is it desired from OCA, that functional people take part? What would be the benefits? Why would OCA value that?
What are the expectations from OCA?
Is there a structure that welcomes functional people and makes their contributions valued?
Could or should a structure be created that supports functionals or even takes them for granted or as a necessary part?
Why do functional people wish to contribute? What are their expectations?
What prevents them? How can we find out? What happens / happened in the past to functional people who are /were interested in contributing to the community.
How can an integrating and welcoming culture be improved and how can that be measured?

These questions can not be answered with tools. In my opinion, there needs to be an actively managed process to change more than tools.

Disclaimer: I am not a pure functional, I am also an experienced developer (outside of the python world) with solid database know how. Moving into a functional role as an Odoo Partner I hoped to escape the developer and tech world. Today, I do develop modules sometimes, use Github and look into the source code. (And have programmers to do more developments. ) Probably a lot of contributors are in a half tech and half functional role themselves. So it should not be too difficult to understand the pure functional world.

The fog in the forest picture from Landis made me smile and now, finally, I send this mail, which I had in my Draft folder for a while.

Kind regards, Bettina

--

Am 05.02.20 um 20:46 schrieb Kitti Upariphutthiphong:

Dear community,

I have a pretty hard question :)

We always say that functional people is vital to ERP system, for sure in the project. But are functional people have places in OCA?

Are there forum or any place where functional can fully contribute their business knowledge without friction of tech, github and programmer languages?

Any pure functional people in OCA can help answer this? :)
Thanks!

Note: This question is passed here by my functional peer who want to participate in OCA. But I also don't have that good suggestion too.
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by Yves Goldberg - 07:56 - 15 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Dear Kitti, dear community,

as a functional person I would like to add my 2ct in the discussion about this "pretty hard question :) " from Kitti.

First of all, this question really really needs to be discussed together with functional people. Some of you already pointed that out.

If tech people suggest what to change, this is a nice move, but keeps generating solutions from tech people.

Odoo has a (open or not so open) culture of "everything is in the sourcecode" and this is a rather difficult approach for functionals.

In my opinion it is most of all a question of culture, so we could first of all ask more detailed questions like these:

Why is it desired from OCA, that functional people take part? What would be the benefits? Why would OCA value that?
What are the expectations from OCA?
Is there a structure that welcomes functional people and makes their contributions valued?
Could or should a structure be created that supports functionals or even takes them for granted or as a necessary part?
Why do functional people wish to contribute? What are their expectations?
What prevents them? How can we find out? What happens / happened in the past to functional people who are /were interested in contributing to the community.
How can an integrating and welcoming culture be improved and how can that be measured?

These questions can not be answered with tools. In my opinion, there needs to be an actively managed process to change more than tools.

Disclaimer: I am not a pure functional, I am also an experienced developer (outside of the python world) with solid database know how. Moving into a functional role as an Odoo Partner I hoped to escape the developer and tech world. Today, I do develop modules sometimes, use Github and look into the source code. (And have programmers to do more developments. ) Probably a lot of contributors are in a half tech and half functional role themselves. So it should not be too difficult to understand the pure functional world.

The fog in the forest picture from Landis made me smile and now, finally, I send this mail, which I had in my Draft folder for a while.

Kind regards, Bettina

--

Am 05.02.20 um 20:46 schrieb Kitti Upariphutthiphong:

Dear community,

I have a pretty hard question :)

We always say that functional people is vital to ERP system, for sure in the project. But are functional people have places in OCA?

Are there forum or any place where functional can fully contribute their business knowledge without friction of tech, github and programmer languages?

Any pure functional people in OCA can help answer this? :)

Thanks!

Note: This question is passed here by my functional peer who want to participate in OCA. But I also don't have that good suggestion too.

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by Bettina Pfeifer. - 06:56 - 15 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

Do we have someone willing to help on administrating/structuring MediaWiki at https://en.odoodoc.org?

Please reply in private. Thanks!

MAXIME CHAMBREUIL
PROJECT MANAGER/CONSULTANT

O: 1.855.877.2377 EXT. 710
M: 602.427.5632
E: MChambreuil@OpenSourcelntegrators.com

P.O. BOX 940, HIGLEY, AZ 85236

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

_______________________________________________
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Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe

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by Maxime Chambreuil - 06:50 - 15 Feb 2020

Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue. Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them". 3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest. From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts? Methods? I did log into the wiki referenced above. Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold

From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,

I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database.

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

- If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.

- If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:

Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional. I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia. I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months. Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process. It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum. Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return. Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories. Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting. If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com. Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther. A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that. I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions. Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.

On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise. Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place. Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example. Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods. Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation... Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing. say v 8, v10, v12, v14? If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure. Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable.

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals. Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow. A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA

Sent from Nine
From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.

_______________________________________________
Mailing-List: https://odoo-community.org/groups/contributors-15
Post to: mailto:contributors@odoo-community.org
Unsubscribe: https://odoo-community.org/groups?unsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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by Landis Arnold - 04:51 - 15 Feb 2020

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